https://www.site/2017-02-09/rezhisser_aleksandr_sokurov_idet_k_tomu_chto_v_rossii_razrazitsya_religioznaya_voyna

"... The flywheel of the destruction of the country will start"

Directed by Alexander Sokurov: it is going to the fact that a religious war will break out in Russia

The world-famous director Alexander Sokurov never hides his civil and political views, even if they ask for it. Because of this, I lost a lot of useful contacts and made enemies. We talked about Putin and Ramzan Kadyrov, Orthodoxy and Islam, art and censorship.

“Putin has his own cinematic biographer - Nikita”

- At the festival "Days of Sokurov" in the Yeltsin Center, your film about Boris Yeltsin "An Example of Intonation" was shown. Can you express Yeltsin's intonation in a few words? After all, you communicated, you were connected by friendly relations.

- If I could put it in a few words, I probably would not have made the film. I have many intonations associated with Boris Nikolayevich. And what I have shown is clearly not enough. I've only scratched the surface of this topic. Besides, I wasn't the only one filming it. In Moscow, he actively made contact with other directors and journalists, who seemed to him and Naina Iosifovna more simple and accessible. I was too abstruse for him. However, with me he always had an intonation of understanding, patience, nobility, respect, and even some gentleness. But this is my personal, private feeling, because he was not quite like that, because he was engaged in hard work.

- You have repeatedly and quite frankly, by your own admission, talked face to face with the current president. After these meetings, did you have an understanding of what kind of "intonation" Putin has? Would you be interested in making a film about him?

Vladimir Putin has his own cinematic biographer - Nikita. He has already made films about him. In general, thank God, this place is occupied. Although I know many directors who would like to join this line, it's just that the president himself does not need it.

- You said that in private conversations he appears different than in public space ...

- I assure you that even Zhirinovsky in public space acts in one form, but in personal communication he is completely different. And Boris Nikolayevich was different. Sometimes I was surprised to see him on TV. I didn't recognize him, he was so different. In general, any large-scale personality in chamber communication looks different: arrogance, the desire to win a special place in the historical or cultural space is leaving. In one-on-one communication, it is always other people. Much to our regret.

- Don't you think that modern world leaders are shrinking right before your eyes? It is enough to compare the leaders of the leading European states and the United States with those who stood at the helm half a century ago, the comparison will clearly not be in favor of the current ones. What do you think is the reason for the crisis of political elites?

How director Alexander Sokurov talked to people about Boris Yeltsin

Indeed, degradation is evident. And this is due to the fact that they are not witnesses of large historical processes. Our life, of course, remains difficult, but the current leaders are not able to see or anticipate this. The fact that the war with Ukraine is inevitable, I said ten years ago. Many then twisted their fingers at the temple, but for me it was quite obvious. And I wonder why this was not obvious to the Russian and Ukrainian leaders. This means that the current political elite are nearsighted people. That the level of culture, intelligence, and indeed the scale of the individual today is leveled. Look at the current Chancellor of Germany. Well, what is it? Just a sad sight. And the Italian prime minister or the last presidents of France ...

- Since you predicted the Ukrainian events, let me ask you: do you think a peaceful exit is still possible? And then, if you listen to our political observers, the point of no return has already been passed ...

“I hope that someday these political observers will appear before the Hague Tribunal as provocateurs who have inflicted enormous damage on the humanitarian space of Russia and the entire Russian people. These radio and television announcers are busy throwing matches around during a fire. If I were in power, I would pay special attention to these people, who create the prerequisites for international conflicts. They must be punished. These are just criminals who work for both public and private channels. And there, and there is no responsibility for such behavior. If the political vector changes, all these commentators will instantly rebuild. We saw this well in the example of the conflict with Turkey. They shouted the loudest about the killers of Russian pilots, but as soon as they were told that Turkey was no longer enemy No. 1, they immediately changed their rhetoric to the opposite. It's so vulgar and vulgar. They are worse than women who sell themselves.

- Women with reduced social responsibility, as they say now.

Yes, I mean prostitutes. But when a woman gives herself to a man, there is at least some naturalness in this, and there is nothing natural and organic in the behavior of these commentators.

- Russia had an open military conflict with Georgia. However, Russian tourists visit Georgia with pleasure and do not face aggression against them. How long should it take to be able to plan a vacation in Kyiv?

Indeed, I recently visited Georgia and met nothing but cordiality and hospitality there. And in the case of Ukraine, this will not happen soon. Mutual contradictions and resentment are too strong. The fact is that the Russians are somehow sure that they are one people with the Ukrainians, and this is the deepest delusion. Ukrainians have long dreamed of breaking away from Russian influence and living away from us, to stop being a shadow of Russia. Soviet practice brought our peoples closer together, but still we are just neighbors. We don't live in the same apartment.

Imagine that you have neighbors, and you suddenly start declaring them your brother and sister. “For what reason? they say. We're just neighbors! - "Not! We live on the same landing, we are already relatives!” But neighborhood does not imply that we should change husbands, wives or children.

The Ukrainian people have their own historical path - extremely difficult, sometimes even humiliating. Their history is always the subject of outside interference, when someone constantly divides your country, forcibly attaches it to its culture. The hard life of the Ukrainian people, hard. And here also the mind of Ukrainian politics is clearly not enough. At a difficult historical moment, the people did not put forward large-scale politicians who could delicately get out of difficult confrontational circumstances. Carefully separate the "Siamese twins" that Russia and Ukraine have become, fused with their economies and national characteristics. But there were no politicians who, even taking into account the accumulated irritation towards the Russians and the pressure of the nationalists, would steadily and delicately carry out all the processes. This means that these institutions of power have not matured. Indeed, in order to build relationships with such a large and complex neighbor as Russia, a wise political elite is needed. Unfortunately, it is not yet available in Ukraine. Because, unlike Georgia, Ukrainians have no experience of statehood and public administration.

And besides, we are still very different from Georgians - we have a different alphabet, a completely different culture, traditions, language, temperament, and everything is different with us. And with Ukraine, of course, there is a dangerous appearance of commonality. But this is only an appearance, and when I was often in Ukraine, I saw a powerful energy of rejection and a desire for independence from Russia. The closer the nations, the harder their relationship. You know: the most painful conflicts occur precisely between relatives.

- Is that why you proposed at the constitutional level to fix the impossibility of hostilities with neighboring countries?

- We must have a categorical condition: not to fight with neighbors. This applies to the Baltic States, and Ukraine, and Kazakhstan. I would introduce into the Constitution the principle of mandatory peaceful coexistence with all countries with which we have common borders. Even if we are attacked, we must find the strength not to use the army, not to invade foreign territory. You can quarrel with your neighbors, but you cannot fight.

- But after all, countries all over the world, if they fought with someone, then more often it was with their neighbors. Germany has repeatedly fought with France, and in the history of relations between France and England, there was even a hundred-year war. And nothing, somehow find a common language.

- Let's not forget that Germany was never part of France, and France was part of England, although they fought all the time on a territorial basis. Of course, territorial claims always exist. The same Italy really dreamed of getting part of the French lands from Hitler. But no one has ever been part of each other, as in the Soviet Union. In Europe, there is only one exception in this respect - the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

"We are dealing with a bomb that could explode at any moment"

- Alexander Nikolaevich, you have always been aloof from political life. They said that not a single party even once approached you with a proposal to enter its election list. And suddenly, in the parliamentary elections in September last year, you headed the list of the Yabloko party in St. Petersburg, while remaining non-partisan. Why did this happen right now?

“I've lost my patience. Of all the parties or groups professionally involved in politics, only Yabloko is engaged in city protection activities in St. Petersburg. It was thanks to Yabloko that I myself understood a lot in city protection work (“Sokurov’s group is engaged in the protection of historical St. Petersburg. - Approx. ed.). They have always used professional tools. For example, they organized big lawsuits against Gazprom, which the St. Petersburg city protection movement did not dare to do. They helped us, and as a result, almost all the courts were won. And then, there are people to whom I treat with respect. Although, of course, I had no illusions. I understood that this was not an option. But my position was: stop sitting in the kitchen - you need to show your position and support those who think the same way. Of course, I made my life difficult, but I do not regret it. You have to pay for everything. Including for such political behavior.

“Chechnya is a region of Russia that is not subordinate to Russia. They have their own army, and only a signal is needed to move these armed people in some direction. And I'm sure a collision is inevitable."

— You head a public group of urban activists, leading a dialogue with the authorities about protecting old St. Petersburg from destruction. Last year, you wrote a letter to St. Petersburg Governor Poltavchenko asking him not to name the bridge over the Duderhof Canal after Akhmat Kadyrov, but they didn't listen to you.

- The point in this question, unfortunately, is put. And I consider the decision taken only as terrorist activity on the territory of Russia. This threat comes from the Chechen sector. We are dealing with a bomb that could explode at any moment. In my opinion, this is a real military threat. Chechnya is a region of Russia that is not subject to Russia. They have their own army, and only a signal is needed to move these armed people in some direction. It is obvious to me that this is outside the Constitution of my country. And I am sure that a collision is inevitable for a number of reasons.

Of course, I hope that the president understands who Ramzan Kadyrov is, and the limits of his capabilities are probably defined. But at the same time, I have no doubt that if he gives instructions to armed people, then in a number of Russian cities there will be great casualties.

- At one time you wrote a letter to Alexander Khloponin, who was the presidential representative in the North Caucasus District, where you proposed to convene a serious conference of Orthodox and Muslim clergy under the auspices of the state with the formulation of political issues ...

And, of course, received no response. Nobody paid any attention to it. In the meantime, we see what is happening. Young people who have escaped from the Caucasian cities behave outside of any norms, not only of Russian life, but in general, outside of any moral norms. And law enforcement officers in Moscow are paralyzed by fear of Grozny, because it is there that death sentences are passed. And if a person is sentenced to death in Grozny, no one will be able to defend him.

“For some reason, as soon as our beautiful women break into the political elite, they behave there more aggressively than men. The most hard-hearted parliamentarians in Europe are precisely our women deputies.”

- Few people dare to speak about it aloud. And it's understandable why. Did you feel this danger?

- Certainly. But let me not be specific. I understand what I do and say and that I will have to answer for it. And the federal government needs to answer itself the question: is the Constitution Russian Federation law in force on the territory of the entire Russian state? If so, then appropriate action must be taken. However, we see that this document no longer works. Maybe a new constitution is being prepared? There is even an assumption who is ready to head the Constitutional Commission - this is one of the most odious and aggressive women in Russian politics.

— Irina Yarovaya?

- Yes. Women generally have no luck in Russian politics. I guess they shouldn't be allowed in? For some reason, as soon as our beautiful women break into the political elite, they behave there more aggressively than men. The most hard-hearted parliamentarians in Europe are precisely our women deputies.

— How do you explain it?

“You can't explain it in one word. The fact is that the role of men in Russia has long been leveled. This can be seen both in the role of fathers in families, and because of how our boys develop in schools. I think it's time to return to separate education - separately for boys and girls.

- And the whole XX century was spent in the struggle for the emancipation of women.

“But if women want equal rights, then let them be taken with equal responsibility. And then after all, in our case, until now, in court proceedings, the child always remains with the mother, the fathers in this struggle do not have a single chance. Then the husband must also leave housing, and let him live as he knows. If we are equal on paper, then so be it in everyday practice.

However, all these are details, and most importantly, the psychophysical surrender of positions by the entire male part of the population. And it starts from school. And if you ask what part of the male population in Russia is the weakest, without hesitation, I will answer - our military. This is the most pampered category of men. Even intelligence officers have great difficulty psychologically adapting to new living conditions - the military is so accustomed to comfort.

- A rather unexpected statement from the son of a military man who spent all his childhood in military camps. Did they already start noticing something like that?

- My father was still a front-line soldier, but that generation had a different problem - everyone drank. It was the scourge of military camps. They drank at home, and drunk people often appeared at work. Of course, there were garrisons that did not cross certain borders, but to a large extent this concerned everyone ... Drunkenness in general is a huge problem for our country. I was struck by the scope of this phenomenon when I was still a student in Gorky, and when I was already studying in Moscow, entire faculties there were in a semi-alcoholic state. At VGIK, they drank simply unbelievably, sometimes the forms acquired just some kind of wild proportions.

It is with alcoholism that I associate the degradation of the Russian male population. After all, there is no such problem in Muslim regions. Religion there helps to preserve the national way of life. And since the Russians have long been a non-religious people, and our national way of life, closely connected with the rural way of life, was destroyed by the Bolsheviks, now we seem to have no support that would stop this fall into the abyss.

“A gigantic mistake is to give part of the power to the Orthodox Church”

Alexander Nikolayevich, you once said on Ekho Moskvy: “Our vast country is torn apart. There is no common energy. The idea of ​​federalism has largely outlived itself. We need to change the federal principle.” Which one?

- And what do you think about this?

- In the Urals, there has already been an attempt to change the federal principle by creating the Ural Republic in the first half of the 1990s ...

- I remember Yeltsin's reaction very well, he spoke on the phone with Rossel several times about this only in my presence. AND?..

— Nevertheless, this idea had enough supporters.

— Both in Ufa and Irkutsk, I also met supporters of such federalism. And even today this idea is alive. For example, in Kazan they are about to make a decision to change the Cyrillic alphabet to the Latin alphabet, which will finally tear us apart. This is happening all over the country. I see it.

“The state absolutely criminally manages relations with religious cults. The Orthodox Church is, to put it mildly, strange and politically imprudent people.”

“It is important that the government sees it. And they thought, looked for ways to hold the country together, until it was too late. Citizens of the Russian Empire, and then the Soviet Union, felt like a single whole, although there was no Internet or television ...

How would you answer this question yourself?

Well, I can only answer for what I personally remember. I think people were held together by the idea of ​​universal equality, certain social guarantees, the idea of ​​internationalism, a common cultural space, affordable free education ...

- I would even say equally accessible quality education, which a person could receive in the capital, and in a small town, and in a remote village, and in a Ryazan village. In principle, it was close to implementation. And today's education is class-based. So no Shukshin will ever appear in our country: in modern conditions he could not get an education. All my attempts to resist paying for higher education led to the fact that I spoiled the relationship with big amount officials and rectors ... In general, you yourself answered your own question, formulating everything quite accurately.

- But if these "clamps" do not work today, will Russia stand with the current "clamps"?

- Where I agree with the communists is that the church should be separated from the state. The current state, however, absolutely criminally disposes of relations with religious cults. We are making a gigantic mistake by giving some of the power to the Orthodox Church. They are people, to put it mildly, strange and politically imprudent.

As soon as a decision is made to create an Orthodox party, which will become one of the official state parties, the flywheel of the destruction of the country will start. Everything goes to that, and the Russian Orthodox Church collects property so that this party is rich. But after all, large Muslim parties will appear next, and then the question of the existence of the Russian Federation will be removed from the agenda.

It is not difficult to foresee this: if in a certain territory an Orthodox religious force receives a part of political power as a gift from the state, then, accordingly, in other places the Muslim population will quite rightly demand a part of political power for their religious organizations. Believe me, Muslims will not yield in anything in this matter. And when the interests of Orthodoxy and Islam enter into a political contradiction between themselves, an inter-religious war will begin - the worst thing that can ever happen. IN civil war you can still agree, but in the religious fight to the death. Nobody will give in. And everyone will be right in their own way.

- In one interview you said: “We are strangers in the European space. Aliens, because they are big - in terms of the size of the country, in terms of the scale and unpredictability of ideas. And in another you exclaim: “Aren't Russians Europeans? Didn't Europe raise us?"

- There is no contradiction here. In one case I spoke about culture, in the other about ways of behaving. But, of course, Russia is civilizationally more connected with Europe.

- And how then to perceive the current turn to the East?

“It's just stupid, that's all. How many stupid things have been done by the Russian state, which still cannot really be created? We are either changing the social system, or we are at war with our neighbors, or we are ignited by some crazy ideas ... And the state is, first of all, a tradition, an experience that has been tested by time and confirmed by national consensus. We can't find agreement even in small things.

Here in Yekaterinburg, they are going to build a temple on the city pond, although part of the society is against it. But it would be nice to see how such issues are resolved in Germany. There, if even a small part of the population is against it, the decision is postponed. Thus, they protect themselves from hasty steps. The Russian state has always lacked rationality and balance, and it still lacks today.

“Our Muslims are silent and waiting for where it will break out and which side to take”

— Alexander Nikolayevich, you say that it is necessary to establish strict boundaries in relations between power and religion, but, on the other hand, you liked Iran, although this state can hardly be called secular…

- Iranians are Shiites, and this is a very special branch of Islam. In my experience, it is much softer. And everything we are told about the Iranian regime is not entirely true. I talked there with different people and I will go there again soon. I think that it is necessary to study the Iranian experience. They found themselves in complete isolation, but did not degrade, but, on the contrary, proved that everything is possible to develop within the framework of one self-sufficient nation - the economy, military and chemical industry, agriculture, hydrocarbon production and scientific research... They even make several times more films than Russia. And very good ones.

In general, this trip prompted me to think a lot about the development and strength of the Muslim world. It needs serious attention. He is energetic and no longer ready to stay within his space. We must understand that it will cross the borders and expand.

- This is already happening. And you are sounding the alarm, saying that in no case should a mixture of cultures be allowed. But this thesis contradicts the current official European values ​​aimed at multiculturalism, open borders, political correctness.

“Europe today is being ruined by the fear of admitting that the national is superior to the international. I call it an infection. Just got an infection in the body, and he got sick. In order for the Christian and Muslim worlds to exist in accord and harmony, it is necessary to draw a clear boundary through which neither side can cross. We must not allow the mixing of cultures. This cannot happen without conflict, because culture is a code, a worldview. And the second rule is not to violate the norms of the root people. There should be modesty of the guest, but as a rule, it is not. It cannot be said that Europe will disappear if mosques appear everywhere. But culture, without any doubt, will perish.

Europeans forget that civilization must be protected, this combination of national and Christian norms must be preserved. The European world has accumulated vast experience of socialization, various political compromises and political practices. And the ability of people to quality work. After all, the main thing that attracts Arabs and Africans in Europe is that you can come to the ready. For some reason, they do not want to fight for the creation of their quality states. They will not do this, but they want to go where something has already been done. But since they do not have the skills of assimilation, they do not have the habit of respecting other cultural and religious principles, then, naturally, the current situation in Europe will lead to major conflicts and wars on the territory of European countries.

In general, we need a distance, a noble distance between peoples. Or under the European culture, you can draw a line and prepare for a decisive modification of the entire European way of life. Either we must resist, or we must agree that we will lose.

- And how to resist if you yourself say that you are increasingly confronted with censorship in the West?

- Unfortunately it's true. Today in the West people are much more dependent on the government than 5-7 years ago. More than once, European journalists have confessed to me that editors do not always allow what they have written to be published. My interviews there are now censored, and the TV channels have often turned down topics that I would like to discuss. In Europe, there is a degradation of democratic traditions.

“It is time for Europe to understand that there is a much more dangerous adversary than Russia - this is the Muslim revolution. Like once Bolshevism"

- In one interview you said: “Napoleon was considered a murderer, a handshake, and now he is almost a French national hero. Even the brand - cognac, cologne ... And the same thing will happen with Hitler - rationality will win over morality. Will humanity forget everything that Hitler did?

- Within the boundaries of 15-20 years, everything will begin to change dramatically in assessments. But if you ask what my conviction is based on, I will not answer. I just intuitively feel. This is my perception of the pace at which modern evaluation categories are changing. Well, who among the representatives of my generation could imagine 30 years ago that Nazi youth organizations would exist in St. Petersburg? It seemed to us unrealistic under any circumstances. Especially in Leningrad, where witnesses of the Blockade, participants in the Great Patriotic War, are still alive. Nevertheless, they are. And not the heirs of Russian nationalism, but the followers of German fascism, who accept its entire system and ideology.

- But our society still considers them marginal ...

- So far this is true, but, unfortunately, the boundaries between concepts are very quickly erased, and the ground has been prepared for this.

- In the same Europe, the topic of the Russian threat is popular today. Does this hurt you as a Russian citizen? Or do you think that the West's fears are justified?

- Recently I staged a play in Italy and, of course, I talked a lot with the local intelligentsia. Among them there is a certain fear of the invasion of the Russian army into the territory of Europe. I encounter these fears even more often in the Baltics. I tell the Balts all the time: don't be afraid, it won't happen. It's just that the Baltics and Poland need to form an association of neutral states - this is an ideal way out for them. After all, when you do not have NATO bases on your territory, then Russia will not need to send missiles in your direction. Be smart: don't plant raspberries near a bear's den.

Historian Boris Sokolov: there are no reasons for a revolution, but they can appear unexpectedly and quickly

In general, it is time for Europe to understand that there is a much more dangerous adversary than Russia - this is the Muslim revolution. After all, why is it so difficult to deal with ISIS - because it is not just a terrorist organization, but a revolutionary ideological movement of the Muslim world. It can arise anywhere, like Bolshevism. After all, no matter how Europe pressed, it could not suppress the Bolshevik rebellion in Russia. And after all, there was also an ideology - to spread Bolshevism throughout the world: Lenin and his followers dreamed of organizing revolutions in Europe. ISIS is guided by similar principles: Christianity has outlived itself, decayed, let's send Christian civilization to the dustbin of history and replace it with a new order - Muslim-political. And since the idea cannot be defeated by missiles, fighting ISIS without entering into negotiations with them as a system means dooming yourself to defeat.

“That’s how the principle sounds: “do not enter into negotiations with terrorists.”

So he's outdated. Now we need to learn how to deal with them. And this requires wisdom. Can you see why our Muslims are watching all this with such restraint? They are silent and waiting for where it will flare up and which side to take.

"Don't think that cinema is harmless, it's a delusion"

- Back in 2002, you told the Izvestia newspaper: “American cinema aggression is killing the feeling and thinking viewer. Russia is defeated in this sense.” Has anything changed in 15 years? How do you evaluate the completed Year of Russian Cinema?

- Nothing changed. If the Year of Culture ended with the closure of libraries, then in the Year of Cinema we will lose all documentary film studios in Siberia, the Urals, the Far East, the northern regions and the North Caucasus. The state, of course, allocated a little more money for debuts, but this is not serious. In order to develop fully, our cinema needs 80-100 debuts a year, and now we have allocated funds for 16.

Nothing has been done for the mechanism of existence of cinema. I'm not talking about banning the distribution of Western films or selling more expensive tickets for foreign films, as they do in France. I am talking about legal and economic measures that can contribute to the development of national cinema as an industrial direction, when there is a technical base, reasonable budgets, cinemas, access to television ... This is the kind of systematic work that the Ministry of Culture should be engaged in, but it does not do it at all.

Unfortunately, this is a feature of government in our time. When everything seems to be in place, but in reality no one is doing anything. We regularly see how the president asks them: why hasn't this been done, and why hasn't it been completed? They answer him something, sometimes he even catches someone in a lie, but nothing changes. If it's like that everywhere, then why should it be different in our cinema?

- Now an active fight against Internet piracy has begun, but after all, many of your films can be watched only thanks to torrents. And in general, for people living outside of large cities, torrents, in fact, are a window to the big world.

“So it seems to me unnatural when an artist is opposed to having his work seen by as many people as possible. Of course, I am not making a producer film, which strictly requires the return of invested funds, and I myself have never received money for the rental of my films, but still I don’t understand why we are depriving, in this way, a whole layer of our compatriots of the opportunity to choose. I do not think that there should be any restrictions in the artistic space. The audience today is very poor, so it seems wrong to me to ban the reprint of books, restrict access to music and movies.

We are creating a state so that it performs its functions. And one of its main functions is to maintain society in a civilized state with the help of culture. The state should have resources to compensate for possible losses to right holders when opening free access to films or books. In general, I believe that an international agreement is needed within the framework of UNESCO or the UN on the universal accessibility of works of world culture. But again they will say that I, like a city madman, offer something unrealizable.

— Is this how your call to the organizers of class “A” festivals to refuse films with scenes of violence was perceived in approximately the same way? But then a whole layer of genres will disappear. How to film, say, "War and Peace"?

- I do not urge not to shoot about the war at all. I proposed to abandon violence on the screen as a professional, dramatic tool, to abandon plots and images associated with the glorification or aestheticization of violence. I have been talking about this for many years and calling for this, but they do not hear me, neither here nor in Europe. Unfortunately, I am sure that this may be one of the few cases where I am absolutely right. The glorification and aestheticization of violence cause much more damage than, for example, any environmental problem.

Propaganda of evil is when on the screen you are shown a method of killing, torturing a person. This kind of movie does irreparable damage. human psyche, because for a modern young man, death is not sacred. It seems to him that killing is worth nothing. Cinema convinces him that a person can be killed different ways: tear out the intestines, tear off the head, gouge out the eyes ... Do not think that the movie is harmless. It's a delusion.

- But for this, the age categories "12 plus", "18 plus" were introduced.

- However, they do not solve the problem - today, thanks to the Internet, any child can watch anything. Although this can be dealt with, I assure you, there would be a desire. The electronic world is such a manageable and vulnerable segment that 3-4 buttons are enough to remove all this from public access, but, apparently, no one needs it.

- And what about your appeal to your peers-directors to stop cinematography for at least a year and give all the funds allocated by the state to young directors? Has anyone reacted?

- Of course not. I am already used to the fact that any of my initiatives do not cause any reaction in my homeland. Journalists still ask about it, and my colleagues, obviously, are completely uninterested in my point of view on topical issues.

- In the West, many famous directors have gone to television. A recent example: Paolo Sorrentino, who directed the best film of 2015 - "Youth" according to the European Film Academy, recently released the television series "The Young Pope" about the Pope. Would you be interested in filming a series?

Well, I've been making big documentaries for television. For example, "Spiritual voices" or "duty", which lasts five hours. These are great works, dramaturgically arranged for the TV format. But I do not want to work in the conditions in which Russian serial cinema exists today. I am not interested in these topics, they have nothing to do with me.

- And abroad?

- I was offered, but a number of circumstances did not allow me to do this.

- Alexander Nikolaevich, you are one of the most titled Russian directors, while among your colleagues you are considered a "black sheep", and many of your works have not been seen by the domestic audience. Do you consider your professional career successful?

“It seems to me that I chose the wrong profession.

- This is a confession!

- It's just that at the time of the choice I was too young to realize the full responsibility of this step. And for several years now, I clearly understand that the choice turned out to be wrong. There are other areas in which I would be more in demand, could do more. Because in the cinema I did not fully realize myself. What to say now...

Biography

Alexander Sokurov was born in 1951 in the Irkutsk region. He graduated from the history department of Gorky State University, then the directing department of VGIK, where he became friends with the main co-author - screenwriter Yuri Arabov. From his student years, he was subjected to censorship persecution, was supported by Andrei Tarkovsky, who saw in The Lonely Voice of a Man "the hand of a genius." Several times he refused to emigrate.

He received all-Union and world recognition during Perestroika, in the late 1980s. Today, Alexander Sokurov is the author of more than fifty feature and documentary films, is the owner of dozens of film awards, including the Moscow, Berlin, Cannes, Venice festivals, the Andrei Tarkovsky Prize, the Nika Prize, the Vatican Prize (handed personally by Pope John Paul II ). Repeated winner of the State Prize of Russia, People's Artist of the Russian Federation, holder of the Japanese Order of the Rising Sun with Golden Rays (for the film "The Sun").

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In New York, due to COVID-19, prisoners were released; in Russia, PMC members are not allowed into pre-trial detention

Director Alexander Sokurov answered questions from Znak.com readers and editors during the Sokurov Days at the Yeltsin Center. Here are some excerpts from that long interview. Completely his can be read at Znak.com.

Alexander Sokurov. Photo: Jaromir Romanov

- Don't you think that modern world leaders are shrinking right before your eyes? It is enough to compare the leaders of the leading European states and the United States with those who stood at the helm half a century ago, the comparison will clearly not be in favor of the current ones. What do you think is the reason for the crisis of political elites?

Indeed, degradation is evident. And this is due to the fact that they are not witnesses of large historical processes. Our life, of course, remains difficult, but the current leaders are not able to see or anticipate this. The fact that the war with Ukraine is inevitable, I said ten years ago. Many then twisted their fingers at the temple, but for me it was quite obvious. And I wonder why this was not obvious to the Russian and Ukrainian leaders. This suggests that the current political elite are myopic people. That the level of culture, intelligence, and indeed the scale of the individual today is leveled. Look at the current Chancellor of Germany. Well, what is it? Just a sad sight. And the Italian prime minister or the last presidents of France ...<...>

— You head a public group of urban activists, leading a dialogue with the authorities about protecting old St. Petersburg from destruction. Last year, you wrote a letter to St. Petersburg Governor Poltavchenko asking him not to name the bridge over the Duderhof Canal after Akhmat Kadyrov, but they didn't listen to you.

- The point in this question, unfortunately, is put. And I consider the decision taken only as terrorist activity on the territory of Russia. This threat comes from the Chechen sector. We are dealing with a bomb that could explode at any moment. In my opinion, this is a real military threat. Chechnya is a region of Russia that is not subject to Russia. They have their own army, and only a signal is needed to move these armed people in some direction. It is obvious to me that this is outside the Constitution of my country. And I am sure that a collision is inevitable for a number of reasons. Of course, I hope that the president understands who Ramzan Kadyrov is, and the limits of his capabilities are probably defined. But at the same time, I have no doubt that if he gives instructions to armed people, then in a number of Russian cities there will be great casualties.

- At one time you wrote a letter to Alexander Khloponin, who was the presidential representative in the North Caucasus District, where you proposed to convene a serious conference of Orthodox and Muslim clergy under the auspices of the state with the formulation of political issues ...

And, of course, received no response. Nobody paid any attention to it. In the meantime, we see what is happening. Young people who have escaped from the Caucasian cities behave outside of any norms, not only of Russian life, but in general, outside of any moral norms. And law enforcement officers in Moscow are paralyzed by fear of Grozny, because it is there that death sentences are passed. And if a person is sentenced to death in Grozny, no one will be able to defend him.

- Few people dare to speak about it aloud. And it's understandable why. Did you feel this danger?

- Certainly. But let me not be specific. I understand what I do and say and that I will have to answer for it. And the federal government needs to answer the question: is the Constitution of the Russian Federation a law in force on the territory of the entire Russian state? If so, then appropriate action must be taken. However, we see that this document no longer works. Maybe a new constitution is being prepared?

It is with alcoholism that I associate the degradation of the Russian male population. After all, there is no such problem in Muslim regions. Religion there helps to preserve the national way of life. And since the Russians have long been a non-religious people, and our national way of life, closely connected with the rural way of life, was destroyed by the Bolsheviks, now we seem to have no support that would stop this fall into the abyss.

It is important that the government sees. And they thought, looked for ways to hold the country together, until it was too late. Citizens of the Russian Empire, and then the Soviet Union, felt like a single whole, although there was no Internet or television ...<...>

I think people were held together by the idea of ​​universal equality, certain social guarantees, the idea of ​​internationalism, a common cultural space, affordable free education ...

- I would even say equally accessible quality education, which a person could receive in the capital, and in a small town, and in a remote village, and in a Ryazan village. In principle, it was close to implementation. And today's education is class-based. So we will never have any Shukshin: in modern conditions, he could not get an education. All my attempts to resist paying for higher education led to the fact that I ruined relations with a large number of officials and rectors ... In general, you answered your own question, formulating everything quite accurately.

- But if these "clamps" do not work today, will Russia stand with the current "clamps"?

- Where I agree with the communists is that the church should be separated from the state. The current state, however, absolutely criminally disposes of relations with religious cults. We are making a gigantic mistake by giving some of the power to the Orthodox Church. They are people, to put it mildly, strange and politically imprudent. As soon as a decision is made to create an Orthodox party, which will become one of the official state parties, the flywheel of the destruction of the country will start. Everything goes to that, and the Russian Orthodox Church collects property so that this party will be rich. But after all, large Muslim parties will appear next, and then the question of the existence of the Russian Federation will be removed from the agenda.

It is not difficult to foresee this: if in a certain territory an Orthodox religious force receives a part of political power as a gift from the state, then, accordingly, in other places the Muslim population will quite rightly demand a part of political power for their religious organizations. Believe me, Muslims will not yield in anything in this matter. And when the interests of Orthodoxy and Islam enter into a political contradiction between themselves, an inter-religious war will begin - the worst thing that can ever happen. In a civil war, you can still come to an agreement, but in a religious war they fight to the death. Nobody will give in. And everyone will be right in their own way.

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,

“Only there it is personified. There were specific people, specific characters with specific characters, destinies. And here in question about the state of the whole society or the danger that modern civilization has. Everyone is subject to dehumanization and moral self-destruction. European civilization is a complex and very stable phenomenon. It can destroy itself, even war is not necessary. Maybe as a result of some inner weakness, lack of courage, lack of consistency. As a result of too aggressive political mood of the society.

If we talk about Russian civilization - the same thing. When there is a lot of politics in the life of society, when politicians determine the guidelines for the development of society, the guidelines for the development of culture, this is always bad, because politics is neurotic, it never speaks of the eternal and of devotion. Politics is a dishonest lady, one mood today, another tomorrow, one goal today, another goal tomorrow. In this sense, the culture is much more stable. She is devoted to the people. They say that the army will never betray the people. It is not true. And the army can lose in the war, and the state can collapse, but culture will always remain with the people, even if the enemy seizes land, and the signs of culture, national culture will save the people.

TATYANA ELKINA, correspondent:

“You have been doing research on politicians who influenced the world and culture with their political decisions for a very long time. Most of your films are dedicated to this. Speaking about your theatreology, in one of your interviews you said that you had her image back in 1987 or 1989. What circumstances prompted you to do this?

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,director, People's Artist of the Russian Federation:

“Probably a genetic interest in history. I'm still with high school drowned in historical passions, I read a lot and very early realized that there is no one facet of the historical trend and at the same time it is very simple. Some artistic generalizations began to fascinate me, then the idea came that I should try, that I should create a program essay, which is not typical for cinema, to create a kind of narrative in four parts, which is united by a single theme, although the characters are different. This occurred to me after graduating from the history department of the university. But Soviet political circumstances suggested that it could be done.”

TATYANA ELKINA, correspondent:

“Hitler, Lenin, Herohita and Faust became the heroes of your programmatic work, do any of them cause you regret or compassion?”

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,director, People's Artist of the Russian Federation:

“Everything evokes compassion, because whether we like it or not, even the most terrible big villain is a person. And if these villains who committed so many crimes, bad deeds, were absolutely artificial phenomena, were brought to us from another planet, it would be very simple - we would simply remove this evil and that's it. But they, all of them, have inner human qualities, which means that all this infection sits inside a person, and it will sit. Nazism and totalitarianism, everything that results in global criminal acts, wars - everything accompanies us, human nature is expressed in everything.

TATYANA ELKINA, correspondent:

“I would talk about each of the four characters, but I will only ask about the Japanese Emperor Hirohito. Historians are still arguing about what caused his political decision in 1942, his behavior during World War II. Someone believes that he is a victim of the Japanese military machine, someone believes that he is still a dictator. What do you think as a historian?

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,director, People's Artist of the Russian Federation:

“There was a universal quality in him, brought up like a monarch with unlimited possibilities in unlimited power, but in this case we are dealing with a person whose personal structure was the humanitarian part of life. He was a biologist, an ichthyologist. He was engaged in science, and politics did not represent any vital passion for him. And I must say that he was the only one of such great criminals who himself realized the fallacy and took a step to the side, bringing the country out of the state of war. Stalin and Lenin, understanding what total sacrifices the people bear in the process of government, did not make any amendments and did not admit their errors, Hitler - even more so. Hundreds of German soldiers died, thousands and thousands of our compatriots died in Berlin, and he maniacally did not surrender the city and did not give up. None of them wanted to give in. Only Hirohito stepped aside, realizing that he could be brought to justice and executed.

One more thing. I argued a lot with our diplomats and spoke with scientists and experts, politicians in Japan of various persuasions (right, left, centrists) about how I Russian perceive some of the circumstances of Hirohito's behavior. Let's try to imagine if he started a war with the Soviet Union, what would happen to us? In a sense, I say this very relatively, because in the historical process everything is not so simple, he is the savior of this situation of ours.

TATYANA ELKINA, correspondent:

“Of all your heroes, does he command the most respect for you?”

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,director, People's Artist of the Russian Federation:

“Maybe because I have been preparing for this film for 10 years. I have been to Japan a lot, lived there and met with the staff secretly and openly who worked with him, because it was not allowed. He met with specialists, worked in the archives. I've been preparing for 10 years and somehow got into it deeply. I love Japan, just really. I know that the Japanese are also not easy people, but they treat me somehow absolutely amazingly. And my gratitude is endless. Then they came to my aid, I went to work for them there when it was impossible to do anything here. There was no money, the Lenfilm studio was practically closed, and I was making documentaries while traveling around Japan.”

TATYANA ELKINA, correspondent:

“Speaking about your cinematography, you often compare it with such a medical model. Your quote: “We are hospital employees, a group of patients is brought to us. Many of them are such scoundrels that it’s scary to touch them, but we must accept them, diagnose them, cure them and return them to society,” it’s clear with a diagnosis, but how to return them to society.”

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,director, People's Artist of the Russian Federation:

“The artistic method is not a prosecutor's investigation, we are always looking for human roots, in any situation. We are always interested in a person, no matter how badly he is, because once he was a boy, a girl and was an angel, then something happened, sometimes it is clear that, sometimes not, and the person turned into this monster. Let society judge, let God judge. We will not be able to cure, we can treat a little, we can stop aggression, we can make a diagnosis and we can recommend a drug blockade to society. But if we begin to judge, there will be no forces left in society that would be engaged in the delicate study of human nature.

TATYANA ELKINA, correspondent:

“You study human nature in your films, and sometimes you do it with the help of such technical tricks that the audience has a question: “How is this filmed?”. In Faust, you filmed some scenes with a 6 by 8 meter mirror. How is this possible?

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,director, People's Artist of the Russian Federation:

“Well, not only in Faust. We shot both in "Taurus" and in the film "The Sun", where I myself was the director of photography. We also shot with the help of special optical systems: glasses, mirrors, with the help of new lenses that had never been there before. This is necessary to create a special environment on the site. I will not reveal all my professional secrets.

TATYANA ELKINA, correspondent:

About the Russian Ark. The film was shot in one frame, but there were those who said that there is still one cut. Are they lying?

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,director, People's Artist of the Russian Federation:

“No, there was no glue. There was no need for this. There was color correction, as the exposure conditions in such paintings are very difficult. We cannot supply the Hermitage with as much light as we need. When we arrived in Germany, we brought together the best colorists who corrected all issues related to exposure. There were no three takes. It was the first time we turned on the camera, it starts from the street and goes inside the Hermitage. The camera stopped because the temperature was 26 degrees below zero. But the second time was fine. And that first stop was just technical. This, of course, has never happened in the cinema, to an hour and a half of continuous action.

TATYANA ELKINA, correspondent:

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,director, People's Artist of the Russian Federation:

“The film was sent to the warehouse of the institute to wash off the negative. We opened the warehouse at night, changed the boxes and took away the film. Then they simply hid, hid, hid around Leningrad from apartment to apartment, until the time came with the opportunity to transfer it to Lenfilm. This has already happened during perestroika.”

TATYANA ELKINA, correspondent:

“You were just under 27 years old when you were working on the film. What happened to you that you made just such a picture?

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,director, People's Artist of the Russian Federation:

“I was like that. Whether it's bad, whether it's good - this is my fate. Such is my life. Unfortunately, nothing has ever been easy for me. I have never been awarded life with any help, support, although there were cases when they helped me.

TATYANA ELKINA, correspondent:

“Is this some kind of global premonition of trouble?”

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,director, People's Artist of the Russian Federation:

“I don’t know, I’m not ready to answer this question. I try not to think about it, I try not to analyze it.”

TATYANA ELKINA, correspondent:

“In an interview with Sofiko Shevardnadze, you said that you twice thought about suicide: when you were under investigation by the KGB and when you started having big vision problems. The story with the KGB because of what picture?

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,director, People's Artist of the Russian Federation:

"Because of the Way of Life, because of the connection with Tarkovsky, because of the attempts to take me outside the Soviet Union."

TATYANA ELKINA, correspondent:

"What stopped you?"

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,director, People's Artist of the Russian Federation:

“Probably the strength of character, despite the fact that all these difficult events happened to me, every time people appeared who, by virtue of their ability, helped and extended a helping hand. Such a person was Vladilen Kuzin, director of the documentary film studio, and Galina Poznyakova, chief editor of the studio. They had a lot of problems because of me, but they always gave me the opportunity to work, if not for their support, I don’t know what would have happened to me.”

TATYANA ELKINA, correspondent:

“Did you understand that you were risking not only yourself, but also other people?”

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,director, People's Artist of the Russian Federation:

“I understood this and always tried to help them somehow in resolving these same issues. If necessary, I made some double films to cover the production. I have never let the studio down. Only at Lenfiltm there was a big scandalous story. My outlet in those difficult times was only work, even if there was no certainty that it would reach the viewer. I think it always makes sense to try, work and be true to your principles somehow.

TATYANA ELKINA, correspondent:

“When asked by Vladimir Pozner about the elitism of your cinema, you said that you were to blame for not being able to be different. There are a lot of people who want to watch you, but they can't because they don't understand. How to understand you?

ALEXANDER SOKUROV,director, People's Artist of the Russian Federation:

“You don’t have to force yourself to understand me. I don't force myself to read books that I'm not interested in, that I don't feel like. The question is not that they do not understand me, it means that these people do not have emotional, personal contact with me. And it's not a problem, and thank God. Cinema is not the main art. There is literature, music, and please share yourself with these species. We are together, if there is some kind of sensual, emotional connection, no, then we are different. Life is built on the difference of people, life is built on complex people. Art always relies not on the people, but on the individual.

See this and other materials in the program group

The film director dubbed the journalists provocateurs who "scatter matches during a fire."

The well-known Russian director Alexander Sokurov shared his attitude towards television political observers and military conflicts between the Russian Federation and other countries.

As the filmmaker said in an interview with Znak.com, he hopes that Russian political commentators, television and radio staff will one day appear before the Hague Tribunal. He dubbed journalists provocateurs who "throw matches during a fire" and suggested that the authorities pay special attention to them.

"They must intkbbee be punished. These are just criminals who work both on public and private channels," he said, calling the opinion that Russians and Ukrainians are one people a profound delusion.

Sokurov believes that "Soviet practice" brought the countries closer, although Russians and Ukrainians are "just neighbors." At the same time, the director considered the historical path of Ukrainians humiliating, since it involves constant interference from outside.

“And then there is clearly not enough intelligence in Ukrainian politics. At a difficult historical moment, the people did not put forward large-scale politicians who could delicately get out of difficult confrontational circumstances,” the director said.

As a solution to the problem of Russia's conflicts with neighboring countries, Sokurov proposed to introduce into the Constitution the principle of peaceful coexistence with states that have a common border with our country. He believes that even in the event of an attack on Russia, one should find the strength not to use one's own army and not to invade foreign territory.

Yandex gave Muscovites 2.9 points for self-isolation

01.04 start at 07:45

Andrey Medvedev. About Sokurov and not only...

Russian political observers, according to director Alexander Sokurov, should appear before the Hague Tribunal. "They must be punished. They are just criminals who work for both state and private channels," Sokurov said. Andrey Medvedev, political observer of the All-Russian State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company, discusses the statement of a well-known cultural figure...

Russian political observers, according to the director Alexandra Sokurova must appear before the Hague Tribunal. "They must be punished. They are just criminals who work for both state and private channels," Sokurov said.

Andrey Medvedev, political observer of the All-Russian State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company - discusses the statement of a well-known cultural figure ...

Everything is bad!

This is the leitmotif of the life feeling of the domestic intelligentsia. And always. This is the context in which the domestic intellectual liberal "hangout" lives recent years 200, but 150 for sure. In general, the interview with director Sokurov can be described as follows. The Russian intellectual went about his favorite thing: he began to talk about what he absolutely does not know and does not understand! But he talks about it from the position of a prophet, a creator of meaning, a person who carries unconditional and immutable truth.

There are a lot of funny things in the interview: both about Islam and about journalists. According to him, "someday these political observers will appear before the Hague Tribunal as provocateurs who have inflicted enormous damage on Russia's humanitarian space and the entire Russian people." This is about Ukraine and how they covered events in Ukraine. "These radio and television heralds are engaged in the fact that during a fire they scatter matches. If I were in power, I would pay special attention to these people who create the prerequisites for international conflicts. They are just criminals who work on both public and private channels" .

The tradition of domestic intellectuals is to sympathize with terrorists

That's who the director Sokurov considers criminals? Journalists. And the presence in Ukraine, where a fire is blazing, about which these journalists periodically talk, private neo-Nazi punitive battalions who fight under Nazi symbols and Nazi slogans, who in terms of their atrocities quite caught up with the guys from the SS divisions "Galicia" and punitive battalions formed from Ukrainian collaborators during the Second World War? This does not cause hostility in Sokurov. They are not needed in The Hague. He somehow does not notice them at all, although even the Ukrainian Themis was forced to notice them. Remember, the case Battalion "Tornado", which was so dispersed that he was forced even in Kyiv to arrest him as a result. They committed such atrocities that even the Kiev authorities were forced to put them on trial. Here they do not bother director Sokurov by the very fact of their existence, The Hague is not about them.

Or director Sentsov, who sat down for terrorism, because he and his friends were preparing terrorist attacks in the Crimea. And yet, he evokes sympathy in Sokurov. Other people who could be hurt do not evoke sympathy from him. Although in reality this is such a tradition of domestic intellectuals: to sympathize with terrorists.

For understanding, director Sentsov, the Ukrainian authorities wanted to change. That is, from the whole group they needed only Oleg Sentsov. They didn't care about everyone else. And they came out with a cunning offer to change him for someone who might be needed by Moscow. According to some operational data, director O. Sentsov coordinated the activities of several cells on the territory of Crimea. And the fact that he participated in the activities of the Automaidan and, in all likelihood, in the defeat of the Anti-Maidan columns that were returning to Crimea, was simply not closely attended to.

The man was preparing terrorist attacks, and they took him on this. Well, they carried out several comical terrorist attacks, for example, they burned down a branch of United Russia. Well, the next one was not comical. IED (improvised explosive device) they have collected.

"Peacekeeping" position of the director

Creator Sokurov says: "We must have a categorical condition - not to fight with our neighbors. I would introduce the principle of mandatory peaceful coexistence with all countries with which we have common borders into the Constitution. Even if we were attacked, we must find the strength not to use the army, not invade other people's territory. You can quarrel with your neighbors, but you can't fight." It is a pity that the Ministry of Defense did not know about such outstanding peacekeeping abilities of Sokurov in 2008, when the Georgian army attacked Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia and simply killed both peacekeepers and civilians in Tskhinval. If we knew then about such principles of the director Sokurov, there was no need to send troops there. Sokurov should have been sent to South Ossetia. He would have come out and, probably, agreed with the Georgian military. Right there, on the spot. If I had found the strength not to use the army, I would have been able to. Not? It seems to me that a word spoken by a person should find practical application.

A. Sokurov about Russia's turn to the East

Director Sokurov called Russia's current turn to the East "simply stupid." According to him, "how many stupid things have been done by the Russian state, which still cannot really be created." That is, a thousand years of history Russian state does not lead Sokurov to think that the state was created, that it has taken shape.

The state is, first of all, traditions and experience, time-tested and confirmed by national consensus. Apparently, we have no traditions, no time-tested experience. However, other more serious historians believe that Russia has its own historical experience, which is very difficult and complex, but, nevertheless, gives Russia a special place in the world and special prospects.

Interestingly, the Russian liberal intelligentsia, every time Russia made an ideological and political turn to the East, showed simply incredible indignation. When Russia began to annex Turkestan, it is clear that there was no economic logic in this, but there was political logic in it. If Russian troops had not appeared there, British military and British military bases would have appeared there at a distance of two day's march from Orenburg. And the entire liberal community then said that we absolutely do not need this, a waste of time and money. When Nicholas II at the beginning of the 20th century made a turn to the East and began to actively invest in Far East and China, when it did not agree, together with the European powers, to organize the forcible division of China into occupation zones, actually saved China as a single state, then the liberal public terribly condemned Nicholas II. But then there was a whole economic program: the construction of a railway to the Far East, and the construction of new ports, and investments in China. But all this caused terrible indignation among the Moscow oligarchy, Moscow bankers, because then the economic center of gravity could shift from Moscow to Kazan, which would become a transit point through which goods would go to China and Asia, new economic ties would be established. This economic turn to the East was terribly condemned. And in the end, as a result of intrigues, it was slowed down, and, in general, Russia was drawn into the military alliance of the Entente (with England and France) and further into the First World War.

Russia is the successor of the Byzantine civilization

When Sokurov says that Russia is more civilizationally connected with Europe, I again have a question. Religion, state traditions, cultural traditions and traditions of writing, Russia received not only from Europe, but from Byzantine Empire, which in pure was not Europe. Yes, this is the Eastern Roman Empire, but Byzantium was never Europe either geographically or ideologically. This is what allowed one or another Pope to declare crusades against Orthodox schismatics. And this allowed the crusaders to completely calmly rob Constantinople and kill Orthodox Christian residents of Constantinople.

Russia just received all its civilizational traditions from Byzantium. Including the lack of colonial thinking. Russia never had colonies, but the West did. Because in the Catholic and especially in the Protestant consciousness there are those to whom it is given, and there are those to whom it is not given.

A. Sokurov said that the church in Russia should be separated from the state and that, as soon as a decision is made to create an Orthodox party, the flywheel of the destruction of the country will start. And if an Orthodox party is created, then rival Muslims will immediately join the race. And then a religious war of life and death can happen inside Russia.

A. Medvedev: It seems to me that Sokurov is just writing some kind of script for his new, yet another wonderful film, which, as always, no one will watch, which will receive an award at some festival and which will be filmed, as always, with state money, so that then director Sokurov could criticize the state.

In general, though, I wonder if there is such a person who got up straight and went to watch Sokurov's films in the cinema? Sokurov's films are predominantly feature films. It is believed that this is a special, author's movie, not for any cattle like political observers, for whom The Hague is crying, but for decent people. I have a question: among decent people with good faces, how many of those who just sat down and watched Sokurov's movie from beginning to end? I'm not talking about film critics, I'm talking about ordinary people.

Cinema about European values

In the last movie A. Sokurov "La Francophonie" the beginning of the Second World War and the personal history of the director of the Louvre, who protected the national collection of this museum when the fascist invaders invaded, are shown.

A. Medvedev: Let's assume that the fascist invaders did not invade France much. And there was no need to defend anything. In the entire French Resistance, fewer people fought with fried liver and young Beaujolais than served the French on the side of the Nazis in the Vichy army and fought on the Eastern Front. It turns out that Sokurov is interested in filming not about how, say, in a starving, dying Leningrad, the Hermitage collection was saved, or about the employees of the orphanage, who one after another died of hunger, but they did not steal a piece of bread from the children. He is interested in European values.

What was there to save, sorry? Have you seen the newsreel footage of the Germans entering Paris or the Germans being in Paris? The Germans from the Eastern Front went to France as an encouragement to rest and heal their wounds, take a walk, hang out with the girls. What had to be saved from whom? You know, this is some kind of distorted perception of life.

Understand and forgive?

It's like with the terrorist Sentsov. Again, this is very traditional for domestic liberals. Vaughn Sokurov says to forgive Sentsov, because he did nothing wrong. In the same way, when Alexander II was killed, the entire domestic liberal intellectual community wrote Alexander III that he must forgive the assassin, forgive the Narodnaya Volya, that they should not be hanged. How intellectuals like to talk about nothing in general.

To me, there is no difference. Whether Sentsov, whether Basaev, whether Kibalchich, whether Stepnyak-Kravchinsky, whether Boris Savenkov. These are all the same people. These are terrorists, murderers who have been destroying and are trying to destroy my country.

However, the Russian practice of combating terrorism does not carry a special grain and content. For example, in the UK, a teenager who wrote a tweet in support of ISIS was given two full years. The boy is 15 years old, he joked, wrote a tweet in support of ISIS, he gathered a group of some Mujahideen brothers, and a couple, as they say. In the West, in general, for stories of virtual terrorism on the Web, with the support of terrorists there, with the creation of groups, people are imprisoned all the time and given full terms. Two, three years, five years. For tweets, for Facebook posts.

Resentment

We are all discussing Sokurov's interview. And I understand what the problem is with Sokurov. He says that Putin has his own cinematic biographer, Nikita Mikhalkov. This is how he spoke. All because of resentment. I would like to be a cinematic biographer myself. And he says he knows "many directors who would like to become biographers." Although the president himself does not need it. There is some resentment in the creator.

Sokurov is not only dissatisfied with a conditionally degrading Russia, but he also says the same thing about European leaders: that they are all degenerates, that they are all completely unrespectable. And in general, it’s not clear who they let in. Merkel is a sad sight.

About the wrong profession

And in the end, he says that "it seems to him that he chose the wrong profession, he did not fully realize himself in the cinema, what can I say now." Fine! A man lived his life, made films for state money, a film that no one really needed, and then he says: hell, Putin has a different biographer, but I didn’t fully realize myself in cinema.

The first and last paragraphs of Sokurov's interview are the most important. Everything between them is the grumbling of a frustrated, upset person.

I look at Western creators, I look at Riddley Scott, for example. He makes a wonderful, very good movie. I'm looking at Steven Spielberg. Talk to them frankly, they will probably say that they didn’t shoot something either. But they are just commercially successful guys. And I am sure that you will never hear such whining from them. Do they make bad movies? No. Does their cinema concern some subtle matters, does it cling to the strings of the soul? Certainly. Do they have bad films? No. Commercially successful? Yes. That is, somehow people all harmoniously combine.

Or take the movie Schindler's List. Absolutely commercially successful project. But is he important? Important. About people? About people. About a feat? About a feat. Does it give you a chance to think? Gives. And there are many such examples. After all, not only militants are filmed in the West. "Schindler's List" made 15 times more money than it cost, which cannot be said about any of Sokurov's films. Maybe it's just that the person has chosen the right profession?